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Luther was a universalist, didn't you know that? OK, I am hoping I got some Lutheran's attention out there. Actually, in his book "Love Wins", Rob Bell tries to say something along those lines.
He's a guy who started a church in our city here and you maybe heard something of him. Recently, Paula and I have really run into the depths of his "charms" and it is scary. We are praying for him and urge anyone to do likewise for him and others who so pervert the gospel, turning into something that is "really no gospel at all".
So, in his book, he says this:
Others hold this perspective (that there is this lifetime and only this lifetime in which we all choose one of two possible futures), but they suggest a possibility involving the image of God in each of us. We can nurture and cultivate this divine image, or we can ignore, deny, and stifle it. If we can do this now, becoming less and less humane in our treatment of ourselves and others, what would happen if this went on unchecked for years and years? Would a person's humanity just ebb away eventually? Could a person reach the point of no longer bearing the image of God? Could the divine image be extinguished in a person, given enough time and neglect? Is there a possibility that, given enough time, some people could eventually move into a new state, one in which they were in essence "formerly human: or "posthuman" or even "ex-human?"
An interesting question.
And then there are others who can live with two destinations, two realities after death, but insist that there must be some kind of "second chance" for those who don't believe in Jesus in this lifetime. In a letter Martin Luther, one of the leaders of the Protestant Reformation, wrote to Hans von Rechenberg in 1522 about the possibility that people could turn to God after death, asking: "Who would doubt God's ability to do that?"
Again, a good question.
And so space is created in this "who would doubt God's ability to do that?" perspective for all kinds of people-- fifteen-year-old atheists, people from other religions, and people who rejected Jesus because the only Jesus they ever saw was an oppressive figure who did anything but show God's love.
Alright, I would like to hear thoughts on this. Maybe you've even read the book. I find this beneficial to discuss because Bell basically argues what agnostics, atheists, etc... argue and it would be awesome to be better equipped to lovingly correct these folks.
I would really like to know what the context of the Luther reference was. I can see Luther using that question because he wouldn't want to put limits on the Infinite but then going on to say something to the effect of "but according to the Word it doesn't look like thats the way God has chosen to do things." Then again maybe Luther really did think that. He wasn't perfect but it doesn't really match all the other things he wrote in regards to justification stuff.
ReplyDeleteHey man. Yeah, he definitely had his faults but here is a good article about this:
Deletehttp://concordiatheology.org/2011/07/love-wins-luthers-letter/
I dont think the author understood what Luther wrote in that letter at all.
DeleteBefore the author presented the questions he referred to others not himself. I didnt read anything where the author made a point or conclusion, he just presented other people's questions and said they were interesting. They are interesting questions if you havent heard or read about subjective justification yet.
ReplyDeleteWhat does the author actually think?
DeleteAnd what do you mean by running into the depths of his charms?
DeleteI deleted the other comments because I felt like I was throwing up all over the thread and that it was too much.
DeleteGo ahead and "throw up on the pages". This author is basically, what I see, as someone who doesn't really believe in God. I am going to write a review of his book.
DeleteAs far as "depths of charms" goes, lots of people in Grand Rapids think this dude is awesome and he says nothing of being saved by the grace of God. And if you look him up, it is all cult like stuff. People are getting pulled into his thoughts, because they give in to doubt, and they lose the wonderful hope of the Gospel.
He might believe in God, just not the God presented in the archaic collection of books known as the Bible. I mean how does that collection of Bronze Age writings hold any relevance for modern man in our advanced day and age. I mean, fur real dude, we have iphones and the internet. The ignorance, misogyny, homophobia, and so on presented in that contradictory collection of books makes no sense most of the time and is not even relevant to me in our modern society. Everyone knows the Bible is just oral myths that were written down and edited over many generations to suite the needs of a genocidal, ignorant tribe who wanted to justify their horrific acts against their neighbors. You sound like one of those weird fundies and we all know that you do cult stuff too. I mean come on man, teaching kids about hell is child abuse. You indoctrinate your offspring in your mythology before they have a chance to understand how stupid Christianity is and you stifle their ability to think critically by threatening eternal punishment if they don't believe in your hate book and flying spaghetti monster. We have science now, SCIENCE, haven't you ever heard of the KT boundary, radiometric dating, you know? ACTUAL proof that the earth isn't as young as your Bible says. There is no way, NO WAY, the earth is only around 10,000 years old. Why do we have dinosaur fossils? I guess they didn't make the cut when the ark animals were chosen.
ReplyDeleteBecause of these prevailing beliefs, for many, God has become a personal conviction developed outside the Bible. EVERYONE is a certified theologian and any thought or idea about God isn't a bad one. And if you say someone is wrong, well, then your just a self righteous, judgmental bigot who is stupid enough to think that the Bible (or at least certain passages) is truth. Think for yourself man, God is whatever I want him to be and you cant tell me different!
I think people with these ideas/pressures/threats make people like this Bell guy submit to themselves-- they change their God because he isn't good enough or he is to mean.
DeleteIn my own life, I know I can shy away from opportunities to witness because I am uncomfortable with the hatred towards God.
A lot of people don't want you forcing your false religion on them anyways.
ReplyDelete